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The fact that the county has a 96% collection rate proves you are wrong. And I believe OCM pointed out its actually 99%, it just may take 10 years to collect delinquent taxes. Well, it takes them being delinquent almost that long before being legally worth pursuing to foreclose. Let me also tell you, the county tax office doesn't have the man power to take on trying to seize delinquent properties. About 20 years ago I was actively worked real estate in a county that decided to seize all delinquent properties. It was a huge undertaking for the tax office. Now, while the attorney fees can be passed to the buyer, the county employee labor cannot. And as we worked over lists and lists of properties trying to research what was worth buying, I don't think my associates and I found one property worth buying. They were cursed with no legal right of ways, roads that were never finished, no water sources, and unperkable soil. Oh, I think one associate did buy a property. It had an old store on the property which included some buried gas tanks. After he bought it though, someone stole those tanks one Sunday afternoon.

As for developers and investors abandoning properties, well that's just a lie. While they may have abandoned current attempts to sell, an investor isn't just going to walk away from their money. And if they have money borrowed on the property, the banks make sure the taxes are paid so they don't lose their money.

About the only thing you got right is that the tax office doesn't have someone dedicated to chasing money that wouldn't add up to enough to pay their salary.

We said most of what you heard was not true. Yes there are plenty of defunct developments and if you look up the owners and they are banks the taxes are being paid. The county is too lazy to put taxes owed on the gis web site. Keep in mind that the county has a 94-96% collection rate and that figure the mouth breathers kept kicking around was explained by Little to be an accumulation of years of taxes on a few. Once again most of it is not going to ever be collected.

Canoe, where are some of these properties and where are you getting your data? Delinquent taxes used to be listed in the paper. Is there a register that can be checked to see who these egregious debtors are?

I'm pretty sure I'm right. When has anyone ever heard of the county foreclosing on a property for taxes? Please provide a date if you can find one, but it won't be in this century or the last quarter of the last one because there are no employees assigned to delinquent tax collections in the tax office and there are plenty of defunct developments and walk away properties all the county.

OCM is completely wrong regarding development and spec properties up here.

While I dont believe any redevelopment is needed or meets the definition the lots will eventually sell for homes either by the bank or the owner.

I am still laughing about the persons you want to staff a board with ocm. Realtor I already covered. The banker---well they are one of the problems. One is already shut down and the building is for lease. Another is or was under federal control and the last one is just a podunk joint. Next the preacher----biggest crooks are preachers, loggers, and lawyers. Builders--- are they not the owners of this mess? Lets just forget the board it will be worse than the mouth breathers we have.

Respectable realtors. Now that stirs a memory of mine. The granite counter top queen. Btw I still have the pictures.

Collecting on spec development takes a commitment beyond what most folks in this county are prepared to deliver. Essentially you need an urban redevelopment program such those we used in traditionally black and poor neighborhoods in eastern NC where clean title could not be had, there were a million heirs, and the houses were shacks.

We condemned under UDAG laws, cleared shacks, bundled land, built spec houses for section 8 and with habitat for humanity. We even killed a few folks that we relocated from open air shacks with no plumbing into new housing with air conditioning. We caused them to develop pneumonia.

It's difficult for a rural county to address what is an urban or suburban problem. You have to spend a lot of money up front to get anything on the back end. Phoenix, Three Top, and that mess on 221 near the Watauga County line come to mind.

You need a non-profit development corporation with legitimate business people on that board, respectable realtors, bankers, builders, some merchants, and some non-profit leaders. One good middle of the road minister also helps and one trusted local government Finance person, either from one of the Towns, the COG, etc. Give them the money to begin and then stay out of their way.

They will have the peoples pulse, and will be able to explain to the people what is being done to put these properties back on the tax roles. The school planners and WCC should also be involved. County Commissioners, State Senators, State Representatives, and **** politicians in general need to be kept away other than to send money.

The goal should be the creation of a self-sustaining local community where the values can survive the first occupant.

People who get in the way should be hit in the head with a ball peen hammer or locked up at new local stock, tarred and feathered.

Mountain folk are proud, long suffering, and like to stand alone.

Mountain folk you have to stand together, work together and accept help to move forward in the current economic climate. While this social stoicism and willing to suffer can be admiral, remember what Jesus said about the Ox in the ditch on the Sabbath - get the Ox out of the ditch.

Right and left wing nuts need to be shunned and pilloried.

I agree with basking your source is just wrong on most counts drag. While there are a few defunct developments banks unlike the county wont go without being paid. They foreclose and pay the taxes. What you have here is an idiot at the helm of the mouth breathers that heard the figures and thinks that will run the county. Ocm is right in one respect that there are properties that are not worth going after and then there are those that are. There is really no excuse for the one with the owner dead for 30 years.

What you heard is wrong on most counts

It's my understanding that the county is over flowing with properties owned by outside land speculators and developers who basically walked away from the properties decades ago and that these properties will continue to sit for eternity with no tax being paid on them until the county forecloses on the them. It is also my understanding that the county can recoup their attorney costs for the foreclosure auction. I heard the tax administrator didn't even have an employee in his office assigned to collect delinquent taxes.

The real problems are the old oil heating tanks under large buildings and old gas tanks.

The above is just what I was talking about referring to the epa having more to do than worrying about a tree stump.

All the town had to do is tell the feds and the state to prove ownership. Then all this person had to do is show they were not financially able to do the clean up. I found out that the state of NC will stop paying for the clean up of home heating oil tanks January 1.

Dog, the feds can put municipal officers in jail.

Bucking that is difficult

The real problems are the old oil heating tanks under large buildings and old gas tanks.

No wonder towns are so contaminated. The epa is more worried about tree stumps and limbs that are buried every day in cca land fills. Essentially this is the same and the town and county rolled over for them. What a bunch of pansies.

I used to work in the clay hole in central NC. Old brick pits are usually filled with garbage from decades ago. The county got made when an out of state company took over the local brick maker and stopped paying taxes on the pits. when the foreclosure process started, the City told the county in secret that the City had been dumping yard debris in two of the pits since the 1940's.

Needless to say the County suspended all efforts to collect. Then a disgruntle county tax person call Atlanta EPA and them the City had dumped in the holes and the City spent thousands digging out the stumps and grinding them a stump dump to make mulch

The County has not been paid, and no one knows who owns the pits.

If push came to shove, I suspect the City owns the holes now, having had to clean them and no one stepping forward to take the pits.

Uncle Remus is a very wise man.

When you encounter a tar baby - walk away. Don't punch the tar baby.

Basking I was summarizing the statute.

The key is what is meant by reasonable expectation. That's a very vague condition. Without studying NC Case law on the subject it would be difficult to answer.

A judge could even find that since by the County's own admission that they get near 99% paid within 10 years of delinquency that 10 years is reasonable given that the county hasn't even used this statute in decades. It's as OCM says intentionally vague to help the property owner/taxpayer.

I do agree with OCM that the more productive way to go about it would be garnishment of wages rather than seizure of the property as he points out the county has a lot of dead property (property that's essentially worth nothing).

City, In this case I would say A through G (with the exception of C) apply, with a quadruple dose of A and E.

Basking (view profile)	Posted 11:32 pm, 09/23/2015
You were a ******ty city manGer if you couldn't paraphrase that for your board. If I wanted to read it, II would have done the research myself. Now, be a good beaurocrat and tell the people what it says in the end.

Summaries without a text backup allow the manager or department heads to tell bald face lies. Summaries also subject you to being called a liar without the backup at the ready.

My impression here is that I am talking to folks that have worked around or for government and understand complexity and appreciate detail. Very few on this site are abjectly stupid and don't need the dog and pony show.

Were I presenting this at the Courthouse I would have a detailed power point, a full text copy of the law, and a two page bulleted cheat sheet for those who will not read or listen. That's for my benefit so that I can prove I told them everything.

Basking, sometimes I summarize, sometimes I talk for an hour � it depends on the time of day and the length of the meeting. After two hours most boards will vote for anything ;). In this instance it's important that folks realize I'm not an attorney, and have not worked with the Machinery Act for a good long time. My summery could be out of date.

The case law matters and the complexity of "getting tough" is better shown by the statute language itself.

This is why so many Tax Collectors are prickly � they have lots of laws and rules they must follow while a Manager with some moxie and Board support can blow through some laws and procedures to effect a desired outcome. The subtlety of Tax Collection is probably beyond the comprehension of those who want to steamroll normal government.

The reason the tax collection laws in NC are the way they are is to prevent government from stealing your house during a lean time in your life. These laws and rules should always be applied liberally in favor of the taxpayer, not the unit of government until that unit can firmly establish they are dealing with a scofflaw or crook.

It's even possible that some of the normal powers of the Tax Collector continue to reside with the High Sherriff depending on how the County handled changes in the NCGS over the past 4-5 decades.

What we are left with is one or more of the following:

A. Stupidity

B. Puffery

C. Political Posturing To Shut Up Board Members

D. Political Posturing To Shut Up A Segment Of The Public

E. A Set Up To Trash The Tax Department Folks

F. An Attempt To Threaten A Specific Scofflaw Not Named At The Meeting

G. A Fundamental Lack Of Understanding How The NC Property Tax Laws Work

IIRC the interest rate on past due taxes is 8% annually. The overnight paper rate is about 2% tops. That means you make money waiting to be paid until interest rates go above 8%. It's a form of arbitrage that is legal.

1 Don't chase drug house property taxes - just bulldoze the building

2. Don't chase a former industrial site

3. Stay away from Ore Knob

4. Stay away from old underground storage tanks

Only chase high profile, high dollar scofflaws, you will get 99% just by paitience